Been dragged into another debate today about how the Dutch team was playing and how we should be ashamed about how we play. The thing with Dutch people is that whatever you do, it's never okay. If you win everything, you did bad because it looked boring or ugly. If you lose it isn't okay because you should have stopped playing pretty all the time and focus on winning the game.

I know it can be pretty horrible to watch the Dutch team play these days, but I was one of those people that said they should stop playing pretty football and win after we got kicked out of Euro 2008. So I don't mind football with less goals and less gallery play. But I can understand that many (maybe most) people would rather slide down on a cactus than watch us play nowadays.

So, what is more important? Win or go to down pretty.

When the day comes that wins are maked as ugly, pretty, deserved or other I would concern myself with others perceptions...until then, a win is exactly that, a win.

Just play to win, often these days you can't play beautiful football, the game is getting more and more tactical.

It's only worth it if we win the WC, if we don't then hopefully it's been the last we've played like this cause it's horrible.

To win is the aim, its no good looking pretty and losing semi-final, nobody will remember the ugly football if your country wins the World Cup, well, some might, but who gives a toss?

if you win once Ugly then that's ok, but keep winning ugly and you'll be hated more then loved

not true, there is in aesthetic side to football.

if one wanted to watch Greece, you could save money by going to a local farm and taking a scythe to some chickens and watch them running around headless

Oh, but that would be kinda awesome. Fugly win it is then

You need to get out in the sunshine more often mate, you're losing the plot.

If you don't win the game, then what's the point? The point is to play well enough to win. If that takes little tricks to do it, then so be it. If you can accomplish it by doing the simple things, then fine. Losing is for losers.

I couldn't agree more especially when so much is at stake.

so what are you saying, there is not an easthetic side to football, elaboreate then?

I think he was trying to say that sunshine is healthy for you.

Vitamin E does wonders for your health.

I'm trying to say that sometimes you don't have to make the game look beautiful to reach your aim, so win by playing ugly if you have to, but for Gods sake win, especially when its down to the last 4 teams, there's no prizes for losing now.

Football is entertainment, people aren't entertained by defensive football, at least not over here. This WC has been one of the most defensive ever and the group stages were a right bore. So even if you win what's the point, if people can't stay awake

Well, that's the thing, the aim of our coach has been the highest; to win the cup. But even when we got through the first round after two games, we kept on playing fuglyball. I just hope we're not stuck with this for the rest of our lives. I understand that you have to do everything to get as far as possible, but this is the total opposite of even the last game right before the tournament started.

Both is preferable. Winning ugly is necessary at times, but if it is all a team is capable of then it is a shame. Holland isn't in that category though...they still show moments of nice football.

This is where perception comes in, imo the Oranje didn't play ugly, just sensible football. Attack yes, but never in a reckless fashion, just throwing players forward as if it was a kick about in the local park.

At least if the Netherlands play Germany, the Germans will have to actually work for the win, rather than being gifted freebie goals on easy counterattacks.

it's doing it the easy way, but if you can do it the hard way you become legends aka Brazil 1970

do you actually think that Greece having won a European Nations Cup has any value to anyone other than a few Greek fans

But playing without wingers is a sin imo, when Kuyt is picked on the wing above Elia then we're going against everything our football stands for.

I've enjoyed watching the Netherlands play. Maybe I'm easy to please or maybe Dutch are spoiled.

Errr... vitamin D.

That's important too.

If you had boobs, I'd marry you.

I am quite the catch.

It's true that Ellia is more exciting than Kuyt. I don't like Kuyt but it is not as if he is a defensive player. Surely he is in the team primarily for his knack of being in the right place at the right time and for making goals. He has more consistent end product.

If that happens, I think Germany will try to set up a Robinho against the Dutch, and place a through pass up the center while Ooijer is scratching his ass..

I seriously don't want to see Ooijer scratching Robinho's ass. That's just wrong on so many levels.

Despite the fact that watching warts grow on a butt can be more interesting than to watch the Dutch team kick a ball around the field, the majority of the Dutch people seems to think the result is more important than the way you achieved that result. A Dutch website is running a poll and so far the majority is in favor of fugly over pretty.

While (so far) 319 voters stated that it is more important to play good looking football, a slight majority of 9631 voters don't seem to care how a possible title is being won.

I just wanna know if the next ball should be made out of squid-leather.

To be honest, as excellent as Kuyt has been it would make more sense against Spain to put on Ellia or Van der Vaart on that side. The Dutch need to exploit Spain's left hand side and that twat Capdevilla - it's a BLATANT achilles heel.

Mind you, can't argue with Kuyt's performances, he has been excellent and as Cruyff said, his performance against Brazil and Maicon was excellent particularly as it has been Brazil's best area of attack in this tournament

for that reason he willy play and I'm sure Robben will play on the right, up against Capdevilla

Couldn't agree more, although you can say that about every game. There are very few RB's capable of dealing with a real winger like Elia, most backs concentrate on attacking. But Van Marwijk is very conservative and the biggest Kuyt fan in the world unfortunately

Capdevilla is better with the ball than without it, rarely give the ball away, he'll struggle against Robben though.

If it's open, it could be a scorefect, In which case Spain would come out on top

I don't like you lol.

I've seen a few quotes by him, he loves him!gotta to say I'd love kuyt to score in the final

Yes, and I'd love to perform for longer than two minutes in the bedroom. Some things are just not likely to happen though.

Methinks some terms are used a little casually here.

Is beautiful football entertaining? Sometimes. Is entertaining football beautiful? Oftentimes no.

When football is entertaining it usually means there are many (tactical) errors. Enjoyable? Sure. So is slapstick.



Is it impossible for someone to enjoy two beautifully organised sides trying to better one antother tactically?

What a hero he would be if he won the final for the Netherlands! Zidane, Ronaldo, Buffon... Kuijt.

I'd love the match to end in 1:0 for the Netherlands, and the only goal being an own-goal by Torres. I'd piss myself out of pure happiness.